Home » Basic Income/Healthy Communities » Welfare must go — and should be replaced by a basic income guarantee: Basic Income Canada chair

Welfare must go — and should be replaced by a basic income guarantee: Basic Income Canada chair

Roderick Benns recently interviewed Sheila Regehr, chair of the Basic Income Canada Network, about a basic income guarantee for Canadians.

Benns: Based on what we’ve learned in Dauphin, Manitoba and in some international lessons, if the federal government were to try a basic income guarantee experiment again — perhaps in a few centres in Canada — what should they consider about their site choices?

Regehr: The most important part of this question is ‘what we’ve learned.’ We’ve learned that a basic income can actually support labour force participation rather than discourage it as some fear. Thanks to Dr. Evelyn Forget’s recent work on the Dauphin site, and to other international programs, we also know that a basic income can generate wide societal benefits for the community, such as better health, increased education and fewer accidents and injuries. Basic Income Canada Network doesn’t have a formal position on the need for new pilots. Pilots may be important to getting politicians on board. In the case of Prince Edward Island, there is an active basic income group and political leaders seem to be very interested, so that could lead to good things. Some people are wary that pilots can also be used as a stalling tactic. If there are to be pilots, what is most important is that we not just retest old assumptions but rather build on what we’ve learned. Because Canada already has forms of basic income for seniors and children, we can learn from those experiences as well.

Benns: Broadly, in what way would you like to see this program set up in Canada? And, what might be eliminated to make it happen, such as welfare? 

Regehr: Basic Income Canada Network is open to exploring a range of possible options. Canada has experience with universal demogrant and negative income tax delivery methods, and a combination of the two. Seniors and children’s benefits both have a very broad-based benefit and elements geared to support those with lower incomes. There are several refundable tax credits that also support those with limited resources. Contrary to this pattern, welfare is rather a relic of earlier times that does not suit the 21st century. It is stigmatizing, and often punitive and harmful, so it is certainly the one program that must be effectively replaced. For others, it depends on the extent to which Canadians want significant overhaul or an option that builds around what already works.

Benns: There are even Conservative voices on the side of this issue. Why is that?

Regehr: Polls and research show that a basic income has broad appeal that does not fit neatly into traditional political categories. Many people feel that government should not interfere too much with people’s daily lives and that would include welfare bureaucracies. Some see the economic logic of putting money directly into the hands of people who need it as a way of making a free market more of a reality. A hard look at public finances shows how costly poverty is to a society so there is a strong business case for a basic income. Many people with a more conservative perspective have great concern for others who are less advantaged and recognize that old methods aren’t working. Across the political spectrum there is growing concern about the impact of extreme income inequalities and a precarious labour market.

Benns: More than half of Canadians seem to want this program, when you look at opinion polls. How can this broad support actually turn into meaningful political support to make it happen? 

Regehr: From BICN’s perspective, a key ingredient to making a basic income a reality is to generate as much informed public conversation as possible, and there are many ways to do that, including in an election year by attending candidates meetings and asking questions. There is rarely one route to policy change and the more places and ways that basic income is talked about the higher it will climb on the public agenda. There are signals that political leaders are listening so we need to keep the volume turned up.

Benns: Medicare started in Canada when one province – Saskatchewan — decided to do things differently. Does this suggest we could see provincial leadership on this issue as likely we are to see federal? Are there any provinces, to your knowledge, that are amenable to these ideas?

Regehr: Yes, provincial leadership is a possibility. One way would be to go it alone. It might not be easy but John Stapleton has put forward a proposal showing that Ontario could do it. As mentioned before, there seems to be political interest in Prince Edward Island. There are other ways that provinces, territories and municipalities (especially large ones like Toronto, where the neighbourhood effects of income polarization are a huge challenge) can show leadership. In fact many have already done so, for example by creating poverty reduction strategies. It is in their interests to try to get the federal government on board with a basic income because they bear the responsibility and costs of health and other services that patch up the consequences of growing inequality and insecurity. Collectively, these other orders of government could have a powerful influence.

Leaders and Legacies is conducting an ongoing campaign for the elimination of poverty in Canada, through this news program. From interviewing well-known Canadians, to researchers, to community support workers, to average people across the country, we are working for a more equitable Canada through advocacy, policy change, and the power of stories. 

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